2020-10-05 & 08 Full MAG Meeting (Conf call)

Meeting Introduction

@Peter Williams

5

Start recording, review agenda Monday + Thursday

Group membership - no update.

Declarations of interest, please check & update if required:  Declarations of Interest

Summary of previous meeting : 2019-07-15 - Full MAG Meeting (Conf call)

You have been volunteered to participate in a team.

@Peter Williams

10

Please pick a team (max 5 per team, first come first served):

• Historic ECL - Daniel, Brandon, Michael, Peter H, Kin-Wah.

• Metadata (including specifying aliases for langrefsets and some overload with Annotations in OWL): Capture, Interrogation and Publish - Guillermo, Ronald, Karim, Stefan, Peter W.

Calls / Pages will be organised after the Expo (find previous Metadata work)

Concrete Domains Update

@Peter Williams

@Yongsheng Gao

25

Concrete Domains

SNOMED International Proposal for Representing Concrete Domains in RF2

Significant Digits - approximation.

Last Minute Addition @Yongsheng Gao: "Booleans aren't available in EL Profile"  affecting:   4.2.6 Concrete Value File Specification  and SNOMED International Proposal for Representing Concrete Domains in RF2 (section Type Indicator Symbols).

Outcome: As per Yong's comment in Boolean Values, we will not be able to use boolean concrete values at this time and suggest the use of concepts 31874001 |True (qualifier value)| and 64100000 |False (qualifier value)| as an alternative.

Quality Initiative Approach

@Monica Harry

20

Invitation extended to @Matt Cordell

KF: "Current content should not be assumed to be compliant with Editorial Policy"  suggestion that we indicate compliance.   See templates in Confluence: Clinical finding/disorder templates  also early visibility:  January 2021 Early Visibility Release Notice - Planned changes to upcoming SNOMED International Release packages

GR: Would like to see templates published and versioned as 1st order citizens.

SNOMED CT representation of annotation properties and values

@Yongsheng Gao

30

SNOMED CT representation of annotation properties and values .pptx

Proposal for a new extended cS refset to capture a range of annotation properties with the concept field taking an attribute SCTID.

GR: Welcome and not before time. Original semantics captured mostly in the refset name.   Suggests we go further to address a number of issues eg flags for medicinal products.  Very much agree with the need to have enhanced annotation features, and provide alternatives to current refsets where semantics are lost in the refset name, like association refsets, and attribute value refsets. Terrible bad decisions in the past that really complicated maintenance and usability

RC: I like the approach, offers many possibilities and doesn't seem to break anything. The challenge will be maintenance, ensuring that what goes into annotation attributes are indeed annotation attributes, and that the types are well-understood and agreed upon.

DK: Agree with the direction, guidance for how to use annotations need to be developed for several specific areas, can be done over time, so allowing annotations seems obvious

BU: Current annotation refsets - semantics are not clear (says GR)

ML: Main concern is potential for becoming dumping ground (lack of reuse of existing mechanisms eg non-defining relationships).   Overlap with metadata eg for copyright.  Concern about 'releasable' flag not necessary to expose tooling data.

KN: Considering what this means on the authoring side with the grouping of similar content and commentary/references retrieval of info. Does this replace or complement it? If it replaces it then will the grouping mechanism be for annotation access?

KWF: In favour.

Further feedback:  Please add comments to SNOMED CT Annotations  

BFO (cf. paper draft)

@stefan.schulz (Unlicensed)

@Former user (Deleted)

20

Sub group members from July:  @Former user (Deleted), @stefan.schulz (Unlicensed) , @Daniel Karlsson (Unlicensed) , @michael lawley , @Yongsheng Gao

Suggestion that Findings Hierarchy could be re-interpreted as "clinical process or state" to make it compatible.  Morphologic abnormalities re-interpreted as continuants.

Further comments to Google doc:  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HcBj5bVIg8lB_uyORZU9A_FWKFsw0sxmB6Xg4UYKygk/edit

Next steps:   Conf call for paper authors, then share with BFO community, publication followed by any changes to SNOMED CT

DK: concern around the solution of putting a process wrapper around current SNOMED.  There are still processes with dispositions subsuming processes with occurrents

AOB / Items for January

@Peter Williams

5

Role Grouping, Post Coordination (impact of DL changes),   further ECL filtering.

Concept model for conditions caused by substances or products - to be circulated before January @Yongsheng Gao (incl. other AGs and Member Forum)

Yong's further items to discuss (quick chat if time allow, or create page to continue)

• Qualifying Attributes - we've called them that, but they're being used as defining attributes

Refset Metadata

This topic comes from SNOMED on FHIR

Also TRAG item: Reference set metadata See Agenda item 17 and consider in wider context of machine readable metadata item 11

In fact, this metadata may be more widely useful when applied to a module.

Suggestion that we could use the FHIR standard which already defines metadata. DM suggests a JSON format which would be extensible unlike a column based solution.

Where are we at with this? Checking with @Andrew Atkinson ...

Relationship Grouping

Google Document, editable

Presentation

OWL file with RGs interpreted as includes

Role group issues

Revisit "Negative Delta"

@Peter Williams

At request of EAG - need to revoke/delete a published component. Comments added to Negative Delta.

See TRAG agenda item #

Notify @Andrew Atkinson

Use cases:

Two groups: where audit is desired (eg technical issue) and where it is not (IP, un-processable characters)

1. Removing IP - suggestion to blank out particular field ("~") while leaving row.

2. Conflicting Rows ie no clear state (technical issue, not content) - suggestion to subsequent delta clarifying row.

3. Clinically dangerous historical error in before-previous release.

Review the representation for product role

2019-April-EAG-Product-Roles.pdf

Discussion of options eg move role concepts into a separate module.

General requirement for flexible composition.