2022-09-27 Full MAG Meeting (Hybrid Meeting)

Meeting Introduction

@Peter Williams

5

Start recording

Thanks to @Karim Nashar - rolling on to observers.

Welcome to @Orsolya Bali (Unlicensed) from B2i @Brian Carlsen from West Coast Informatics

Summary of previous meeting : 2022-04-04 Full MAG Meeting (Hybrid Meeting)

Semantic Tags

@Ed Cheetham 

@Yongsheng Gao 

80

Semantic Tag & MRCM discrepancies

Use case & effects on end-users.  

Business Benefits of Change?

Starting points for Semantic Tags (issue there with Medicinal Products Hierarchy)

This presentation revisits some ideas initially presented to the Release Advisory Group in April 2022 on the opportunities (and challenges) encountered when trying to clarify the part played by (and the meaning of) ‘semantic tags’ in SNOMED CT. The presentation reviews some of the history of tags, identifies regularities and exceptions, and makes some suggestions for hopefully non-disruptive changes which would increase consistency within the tags themselves as well as between the tags and the MRCM, together aimed at improving product understanding and usability.

Break time 10:30 - 11:00 WEST

Attribute Value File - mutability of valueId

@Peter Williams 

5

5.2.1.3 Attribute Value Reference Set

Is anyone aware of a situation where the valueId should be considered immutable?

If so, we should document what these are.   If not, we can mark this field as always mutable.

Cascading Dependencies and Language Reference Set stacking.

@Guillermo Reynoso 

@Terance Shird 

30

Discussion requested around refsets and specifically multiple languages which are managed by exception eg Common French then specialised by Swiss and Canadian French.  "Scope" refsets may be useful in this area.

AOB

@Peter Williams 

10

Next meeting - SNOMED International Business meeting London April 1-6 2023 

1

Module Dependency Refset

@Peter Williams

@Andrew Atkinson

Metadata working group proposed - volunteers? @michael lawley @Guillermo Reynoso @Peter Williams

2

Refset Descriptor Refset - Mandatory / Optional / Transitvity

@Peter Williams

5.2.4.1 Reference Set Descriptor

(Generate page for discussion)

3

Draft Design for Template Publication

@Peter Williams

Work in progress:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hOKOu9kxTFvqlgY_Gzc3T-sn8Z-b-d1bH5-Ocn9Sz90/edit?usp=sharing

Production templates here:  https://github.com/IHTSDO/snomed-templates

GR Major Use cases: 

• MRCM refsets causing issues in computed templates.  Is considered redundant and is heavy overhead for extension.

• UUID for each logical template (Done!)

• Description templates also expected to be used and extended (for each language) by Termmed

• Critical to move forward with this work

DK Points out complexity of generating terms in non-English languages.  We agreed to look at additional use cases although existing design allows for use of RegEx and even small chunks of JScript so already quite flexible.

GR Description rules are most useful when used with sufficiently defined content.  Templated descriptions used with existing International Content could pick up elements from other languages eg use template to help parse the English term parts and translate those in context.  

GR Would like to see refset sample based on current production templates as per GitHub repo.   To be discussed internally @Rory Davidson @Andrew Atkinson

AOB / Items outstanding

@Peter Williams

5

Concept model for a condition without condition (@Jim Case and @Yongsheng Gao)

------------------------------------------

Role Grouping (in the context of BFO harmonization), see Reubmitted Manuscript

Post Coordination (impact of DL changes),   further ECL filtering.

Concept model for conditions caused by substances or products - to be circulated before January @Yongsheng Gao (incl. other AGs and Member Forum)

Yong's further items to discuss (quick chat if time allow, or create page to continue)

• Qualifying Attributes - we've called them that, but they're being used as defining attributes (this is more about documentation clarity)

Future enhancements to the logic profile

Negation

Disjunction

Calculation not currently faster under M1 chip architecture.  Note that most of the time taken up by the classification service end-to-end process goes into generating the NNF, which is single threaded.

Refset Metadata

This topic comes from SNOMED on FHIR

Also TRAG item: Reference set metadata See Agenda item 17 and consider in wider context of machine readable metadata item 11

In fact, this metadata may be more widely useful when applied to a module.

Suggestion that we could use the FHIR standard which already defines metadata. DM suggests a JSON format which would be extensible unlike a column based solution.

Where are we at with this? Checking with @Andrew Atkinson

Revisit "Negative Delta"

@Peter Williams

At request of EAG - need to revoke/delete a published component. Comments added to Negative Delta.

See TRAG agenda item #

Notify @Andrew Atkinson

Use cases:

Two groups: where audit is desired (eg technical issue) and where it is not (IP, un-processable characters)

1. Removing IP - suggestion to blank out particular field ("~") while leaving row.

2. Conflicting Rows ie no clear state (technical issue, not content) - suggestion to subsequent delta clarifying row.

3. Clinically dangerous historical error in before-previous release.