2022-02-16 Full MAG Meeting (Conf call)

Meeting Introduction

@Peter Williams

5

Start recording

Summary of previous meeting : 2021-10-20 Full MAG Meeting (Conf call)

April meeting - in person?   Daniel and Ronald if possible. Stefan?   Guillermo will see.  No from Karim.

Miscellanea

10

ECL 1.7 re-numbered as ECL 2.0 (SNOMED Languages Group) - currently in the final states of review.  Published in the next few weeks hopefully.

@stefan.schulz (Unlicensed) SNOMED-BFO paper now thoroughly revised, already in Applied Ontology template. Missing: some basic exploratory analysis of random samples (ongoing, done by @stefan.schulz (Unlicensed) ). Also conclusion of discussion (comparison of typical modelling patterns with other ontologies). Plan: finishing manuscript by end of February.  
Input welcome until Feb 28:
IMPORTANT: New link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11gMl6OXF2vEg4KormL4Qrrjf8kTZC8Zf3KXzs_c0E5c/edit

New Map Refset Type

@Peter Williams

15

Redesigning Map Reference Sets to Support Maps in Either Direction

New Map RF2 Specifications - 5.2 Reference Set Types

KWF suggests a smaller set of generic map structures.  No compatibility between types.

GR Original refsets were designed in something of a rush and once published, frozen (original sins of RF1 were carried over eg "really really extended").   In favour of retaining backwards compatibility.   Hopes annotation work can be used to improve flexibility.

ML Agrees that proliferation of types is unfortunate.  Questions if 3 simple map types (to, from, SNOMED to SNOMED is needed).

Discuss further simplification internally.

SNOMED CT representation of annotation properties and values

@Yongsheng Gao

5

Please add comments to SNOMED CT Annotations  

Implementation scheduled for 2023

GR Many examples of implementations that need to extend artefacts, feels that we are falling behind.  "Extended Annotations" desirable.  Current setup is inhibiting us from - for example - creating new descriptions types.

Module Dependency Refset

@Peter Williams

@Andrew Atkinson

10

Current thinking is we will add a "composition block" to the existing JSON metadata block.

Metadata working group proposed - volunteers? @michael lawley @Guillermo Reynoso @Peter Williams

Refset Descriptor Refset - Mandatory / Optional / Transitvity

@Peter Williams

10

5.2.4.1 Reference Set Descriptor 

GR - the existence of the Refset Descriptor suggests the ability to design custom reference sets eg at runtime

ML useful for syntactic validation of refset contents.

GR - Suggests work should be done in the area of these system type refsets.  MRCM refsets considered particularly problematic.

Role Grouping

@stefan.schulz (Unlicensed)

5

The semantics of role groups is an important element of the modelling patterns discussed in the BFO paper. And it is also part of the solution.

But only regarding Clinical Findings. The comprehensive RG analysis I presented together with Daniel in London 2019 hasn't been followed up since then.

Check in with @Daniel Karlsson (Unlicensed)prior to re-visiting this discussion at the April Business Meeting. Clinical Finding, Observables and Procedures to be looked at.

Downstream impact must always be considered and overall benefit must be clear before "problematic" changes are made.

ML asking if a change to "wording" of grouping would have any impact to eg ECL, diagramming standard, FHIR, SCG.

Metadata

@Guillermo Reynoso

@Ronald Cornet (Unlicensed)

@Karim Nashar

@stefan.schulz (Unlicensed)

20

Metadata (including specifying aliases for langrefsets and some overload with Annotations in OWL): Capture, Interrogation and Publish

Was there a proposal for language refset aliases?   See ECL Appendix C.  Dialect aliases are needed for ECL 1.5.   Also use case for using ISO Language codes in FHIR (see ML comments below and of course this doesn't apply to context of use type language reference sets) and being able to map to the appropriate LangReset.   Note new use case for Sanskrit transliterated into English script - 

In the absence of a full machine readable metadata proposal, should we associate these ISO codes context of use aliases to the langage refset SCTID. 

 As always, use cases would be very helpful here.

For ECL we only need an alias string for convenience, but other information is available for a LangRefset such as: what language it uses, what script it uses.

ECL proposal suggests making the alias parseable eg  2A Lang -  2A Realm - Specifier 

Check Refset Tool metadata.

To avoid wild west, creating a new concept for each type of metadata seems prudent.  At that point it just becomes a tooling question for how quickly tooling will allow new members to be populated after the refset concept has been created.

Alternative solution: New description type of "Alias" (tooling impact concerns).

GR Alternative identifiers were possibly catered for in the Identifier table.  Annotations would need a way to group identifiers that relate to each other.   Would like to fast track annotations in general rather than a quick fix.   Existing solutions using JSON.   Does not want to see a proliferation of Refsets.

YG Would like to see a single structure to handle all annotations

ML Notes that there is not a clear or single mapping between ISO Language codes and Language Reference Sets.

SS - Reminds us that there are 3 types of German.   Also preferred in one dialect may be unacceptable in another.

AOB

0

Next meeting - SNOMED International Business meeting April 2022.

GR Interest in SI Templates.  GR working on translation templates would like to have open discussion on SI's plans.

MAG Monday 4 April 10:30 - 13:00 UTC

AOB / Items outstanding

@Peter Williams

5

Concept model for a condition without condition (@Jim Case and @Yongsheng Gao)

------------------------------------------

Role Grouping, Post Coordination (impact of DL changes),   further ECL filtering.

Concept model for conditions caused by substances or products - to be circulated before January @Yongsheng Gao (incl. other AGs and Member Forum)

Yong's further items to discuss (quick chat if time allow, or create page to continue)

• Qualifying Attributes - we've called them that, but they're being used as defining attributes (this is more about documentation clarity)

Future enhancements to the logic profile

Negation

Disjunction

Calculation not currently faster under M1 chip architecture.  Note that most of the time taken up by the classification service end-to-end process goes into generating the NNF, which is single threaded.

Template Development

Support for automated template to template modeling changes for NRCs

Refset Metadata

This topic comes from SNOMED on FHIR

Also TRAG item: Reference set metadata See Agenda item 17 and consider in wider context of machine readable metadata item 11

In fact, this metadata may be more widely useful when applied to a module.

Suggestion that we could use the FHIR standard which already defines metadata. DM suggests a JSON format which would be extensible unlike a column based solution.

Where are we at with this? Checking with @Andrew Atkinson

Revisit "Negative Delta"

@Peter Williams

At request of EAG - need to revoke/delete a published component. Comments added to Negative Delta.

See TRAG agenda item #

Notify @Andrew Atkinson

Use cases:

Two groups: where audit is desired (eg technical issue) and where it is not (IP, un-processable characters)

1. Removing IP - suggestion to blank out particular field ("~") while leaving row.

2. Conflicting Rows ie no clear state (technical issue, not content) - suggestion to subsequent delta clarifying row.

3. Clinically dangerous historical error in before-previous release.